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	<title>Comments on: Sorry, Doctor Shiller, not Everything can be Hedged</title>
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	<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/</link>
	<description>Helping Institutions and Ordinary People Invest Better by Focusing on Risk Control</description>
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		<title>By: Roderick Beck</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-24162</link>
		<dc:creator>Roderick Beck</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Jan 2010 22:17:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-24162</guid>
		<description>First of all, it was proven a long time ago by Arrow and Debreu that economic efficiency requires complete markets. 

That includes markets for hedging risks. 

Shiller, being a lot more intelligent than his detractors on this list, is simply exploring ways of using markets to hedge those risks. 

Wisdom Speaker is totally off-base. Wanting insurance is not a sign of moral failure. It means you are risk averse. 

And how is Shiller, who predicted both the Dot-com and real estate crashes, guilty of &#039;pre-crash mentality&#039;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First of all, it was proven a long time ago by Arrow and Debreu that economic efficiency requires complete markets. </p>
<p>That includes markets for hedging risks. </p>
<p>Shiller, being a lot more intelligent than his detractors on this list, is simply exploring ways of using markets to hedge those risks. </p>
<p>Wisdom Speaker is totally off-base. Wanting insurance is not a sign of moral failure. It means you are risk averse. </p>
<p>And how is Shiller, who predicted both the Dot-com and real estate crashes, guilty of &#8216;pre-crash mentality&#8217;?</p>
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		<title>By: Wisdom Speaker</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22136</link>
		<dc:creator>Wisdom Speaker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 03:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22136</guid>
		<description>In the end, ownership is about the strategic selection of risks, calculated risks, where the likely rewards outweigh the risks.  If the likely rewards don&#039;t outweigh the risks then ownership (&quot;investment&quot;) is not a good choice.  As Ben Graham put it, thorough analysis, security of principal and a reasonable return are the essential ingredients.  Complexity bedevils analysis;  hedging tends to involve concealment of risks to principal; financial intermediation (e.g. with a counterparty) requires sharing the expected return.  The odds of mis-estimating risk become much higher.

On a more philosophical plane: I would hate to live in a world where everyone was &quot;hedged&quot; or &quot;insured&quot; and thought they had no risk, and yet would earn some kind of return.  A world of prudent risk-takers, willing to put actual capital on the line because they&#039;ve done their homework and willing to work to make their commitments work out,  is better than a world of &quot;hedged&quot; risk-averse &quot;free lunch&quot; seekers who just want some counterparty to make everything all better for them if they turn out to be wrong.  

There&#039;s a moral hazard aspect to insurance -- think about how popular the high-hazard &quot;extreme&quot; sports are, now that everyone feels entitled to having someone else pay for their wrecks.  There&#039;s also the problem that your average individual, regardless of means, is just not sufficiently sophisticated financially to make proper use of these &quot;hedging&quot; tools.  We live in a nation where 90% of the population cannot do something as simple and obvious as paying off their credit cards in full each month!  This applies all the way up to the highest levels of business and government -- Representatives, Senators and even national presidential candidates are up to their eyeballs in debt that is clearly not in their financial interest.  Should we really be turning the Wall Street marketing mafia loose with new &quot;financial innovations&quot;, on such ignorant prey?

My intuition tells me that it would be better for society if people who aren&#039;t comfortable owning a particular asset were encouraged (&quot;invisble hand&quot; style) to stop owning it, NOT for them to maintain &quot;ownership&quot; but with &quot;insurance&quot;. Shiller and other advocates of hedging tools seem to be living in the pre-crash mentality, where financial complexity seemed like a good thing, and counterparty risks could be ignored.  Such is not the case now.  With the number of publicly filing businesses down about 1/3, and the number issuing &quot;going concern&quot; warnings rising dramatically, it&#039;s flawed logic to assume that &quot;insurance&quot; (as a generic concept) is &quot;guaranteed&quot;.  Would you sell a future on your home to the next AIG?  The next Countrywide?  The next Lehman Brothers?  In the absence of financial transparency, particularly with respect to off-balance-sheet (and allegedly &quot;hedged&quot;) risk exposures, there&#039;s no way to tell that your counterparty of choice won&#039;t blow up in the next 10 years (or whatever time horizon).  In such an environment, hedging makes little sense from a Graham-ian investment perspective, because upon thorough analysis the risks are quite likely too high.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In the end, ownership is about the strategic selection of risks, calculated risks, where the likely rewards outweigh the risks.  If the likely rewards don&#8217;t outweigh the risks then ownership (&#8221;investment&#8221;) is not a good choice.  As Ben Graham put it, thorough analysis, security of principal and a reasonable return are the essential ingredients.  Complexity bedevils analysis;  hedging tends to involve concealment of risks to principal; financial intermediation (e.g. with a counterparty) requires sharing the expected return.  The odds of mis-estimating risk become much higher.</p>
<p>On a more philosophical plane: I would hate to live in a world where everyone was &#8220;hedged&#8221; or &#8220;insured&#8221; and thought they had no risk, and yet would earn some kind of return.  A world of prudent risk-takers, willing to put actual capital on the line because they&#8217;ve done their homework and willing to work to make their commitments work out,  is better than a world of &#8220;hedged&#8221; risk-averse &#8220;free lunch&#8221; seekers who just want some counterparty to make everything all better for them if they turn out to be wrong.  </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a moral hazard aspect to insurance &#8212; think about how popular the high-hazard &#8220;extreme&#8221; sports are, now that everyone feels entitled to having someone else pay for their wrecks.  There&#8217;s also the problem that your average individual, regardless of means, is just not sufficiently sophisticated financially to make proper use of these &#8220;hedging&#8221; tools.  We live in a nation where 90% of the population cannot do something as simple and obvious as paying off their credit cards in full each month!  This applies all the way up to the highest levels of business and government &#8212; Representatives, Senators and even national presidential candidates are up to their eyeballs in debt that is clearly not in their financial interest.  Should we really be turning the Wall Street marketing mafia loose with new &#8220;financial innovations&#8221;, on such ignorant prey?</p>
<p>My intuition tells me that it would be better for society if people who aren&#8217;t comfortable owning a particular asset were encouraged (&#8221;invisble hand&#8221; style) to stop owning it, NOT for them to maintain &#8220;ownership&#8221; but with &#8220;insurance&#8221;. Shiller and other advocates of hedging tools seem to be living in the pre-crash mentality, where financial complexity seemed like a good thing, and counterparty risks could be ignored.  Such is not the case now.  With the number of publicly filing businesses down about 1/3, and the number issuing &#8220;going concern&#8221; warnings rising dramatically, it&#8217;s flawed logic to assume that &#8220;insurance&#8221; (as a generic concept) is &#8220;guaranteed&#8221;.  Would you sell a future on your home to the next AIG?  The next Countrywide?  The next Lehman Brothers?  In the absence of financial transparency, particularly with respect to off-balance-sheet (and allegedly &#8220;hedged&#8221;) risk exposures, there&#8217;s no way to tell that your counterparty of choice won&#8217;t blow up in the next 10 years (or whatever time horizon).  In such an environment, hedging makes little sense from a Graham-ian investment perspective, because upon thorough analysis the risks are quite likely too high.</p>
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		<title>By: matt wilbert</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22123</link>
		<dc:creator>matt wilbert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22123</guid>
		<description>Margin calls on housing futures could be a problem, although probably not for me, but presumably you could borrow the money for the margin call if your housing equity were rising.

And yes, I try to offset my consumption-related short oil position by always having some long oil exposure, although not currently with futures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Margin calls on housing futures could be a problem, although probably not for me, but presumably you could borrow the money for the margin call if your housing equity were rising.</p>
<p>And yes, I try to offset my consumption-related short oil position by always having some long oil exposure, although not currently with futures.</p>
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		<title>By: Walt French</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22115</link>
		<dc:creator>Walt French</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:33:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22115</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;The concept that everything can be hedged assumes deep markets everywhere, which is not the case.

Exactly backwards: once we have &quot;complete&quot; markets, including an individual&#039;s ability to buy, for example, insurance against average house prices in an area dropping sharply, THEN we can have hedgeability.

There&#039;s a pretty good analogy to stocks: I as a stockholder, have never participated in an IPO, but the &lt;b&gt;secondary&lt;/b&gt; market for stocks means that the IPO types can get out and move on to the Next Big Thing. In that sense, everyday stock investors are largely speculators, buying the stock in the hope that it will go up, but NOT changing the balance sheets of the firms they now own.

Please note that the Shiller products are structured as ETFs rather than futures in part to prevent margin calls from knocking out the unwitting. They really do look like well-thought-out mechanisms for hedging by those who most need the function.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>The concept that everything can be hedged assumes deep markets everywhere, which is not the case.</p>
<p>Exactly backwards: once we have &#8220;complete&#8221; markets, including an individual&#8217;s ability to buy, for example, insurance against average house prices in an area dropping sharply, THEN we can have hedgeability.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a pretty good analogy to stocks: I as a stockholder, have never participated in an IPO, but the <b>secondary</b> market for stocks means that the IPO types can get out and move on to the Next Big Thing. In that sense, everyday stock investors are largely speculators, buying the stock in the hope that it will go up, but NOT changing the balance sheets of the firms they now own.</p>
<p>Please note that the Shiller products are structured as ETFs rather than futures in part to prevent margin calls from knocking out the unwitting. They really do look like well-thought-out mechanisms for hedging by those who most need the function.</i></p>
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		<title>By: Daniel</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22114</link>
		<dc:creator>Daniel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 14:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22114</guid>
		<description>David,

Doesn&#039;t your real estate hedging logic extend to life insurance? Life insurers don&#039;t have a natural exposure to your life, but through pooling are able to offer a product that allows you to hedge your idiosyncratic risk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David,</p>
<p>Doesn&#8217;t your real estate hedging logic extend to life insurance? Life insurers don&#8217;t have a natural exposure to your life, but through pooling are able to offer a product that allows you to hedge your idiosyncratic risk.</p>
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		<title>By: Jason Ruspini</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22106</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason Ruspini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 21:42:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22106</guid>
		<description>The uniqueness of property argument is a canard as there is clearly some beta to prevailing prices.  Logically speaking, it doesn&#039;t matter that in any given case the hedge might not work.

I agree that speculation, particularly with credit default swaps, can be destabilizing, but you seem to be saying something more and relying on an arbitrary definition of gambling.  You seem to be implying, for example, that all commodity futures transactions should only involve counter-hedgers.  Or even that one should not buy non-dividend stocks in a secondary market (unless you&#039;re buying enough to possibly steer the board and the actual business).

I have enjoyed your writing for years but I disagree with your conclusions as I understand them here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The uniqueness of property argument is a canard as there is clearly some beta to prevailing prices.  Logically speaking, it doesn&#8217;t matter that in any given case the hedge might not work.</p>
<p>I agree that speculation, particularly with credit default swaps, can be destabilizing, but you seem to be saying something more and relying on an arbitrary definition of gambling.  You seem to be implying, for example, that all commodity futures transactions should only involve counter-hedgers.  Or even that one should not buy non-dividend stocks in a secondary market (unless you&#8217;re buying enough to possibly steer the board and the actual business).</p>
<p>I have enjoyed your writing for years but I disagree with your conclusions as I understand them here.</p>
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		<title>By: Candy Chiu</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22098</link>
		<dc:creator>Candy Chiu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 20:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22098</guid>
		<description>matt wilbert:
It is a dangerous idea to hedge the value of the your house with a future.  You will need to come up with the cash to meet the margin calls till the day you sell your home.  Shiller&#039;s hedging tools may work for the home builder, but unlikely for individual home owners.  When oil was cheap, have you thought about longing oil futures to hedge your future consumption?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>matt wilbert:<br />
It is a dangerous idea to hedge the value of the your house with a future.  You will need to come up with the cash to meet the margin calls till the day you sell your home.  Shiller&#8217;s hedging tools may work for the home builder, but unlikely for individual home owners.  When oil was cheap, have you thought about longing oil futures to hedge your future consumption?</p>
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		<title>By: David Merkel</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22096</link>
		<dc:creator>David Merkel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 17:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22096</guid>
		<description>It depends on what area of the country you are in -- whether you should buy or rent.  Areas of the country where the bubble blew biggest still have more deflation to do.  Near market bottoms, transaction frequency is high but prices don&#039;t move much.

As for Shiller&#039;s product, it is probably not a good hedge in the short run -- if you are planning on holding it to maturity, it might work, but remember, it works off of an index that tends to lag underlying price moves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It depends on what area of the country you are in &#8212; whether you should buy or rent.  Areas of the country where the bubble blew biggest still have more deflation to do.  Near market bottoms, transaction frequency is high but prices don&#8217;t move much.</p>
<p>As for Shiller&#8217;s product, it is probably not a good hedge in the short run &#8212; if you are planning on holding it to maturity, it might work, but remember, it works off of an index that tends to lag underlying price moves.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Ano</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22095</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Ano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 16:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22095</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m in my early 20s.  I plan to buy a house sometime in the next few years.  I&#039;m saving up a downpayment.  Does it not make sense to store part of this payment in the housing up shares?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m in my early 20s.  I plan to buy a house sometime in the next few years.  I&#8217;m saving up a downpayment.  Does it not make sense to store part of this payment in the housing up shares?</p>
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		<title>By: Tom Fisher</title>
		<link>http://alephblog.com/2009/07/09/sorry-doctor-shiller-not-everything-can-be-hedged/comment-page-1/#comment-22091</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom Fisher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 13:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1876#comment-22091</guid>
		<description>David, you make an important point here.  Shiller&#039;s aspiration to provide hedging tools for homeowners is well-intentioned, but flawed.  

The problem is something that that my lawyer pointed out to me years ago: an individual home is unique.  There&#039;s no exact substitute for my home or your home.  It&#039;s not like a security, where one stock or bond or barrel of oil is interchangeable with another.  

Trying to hedge the price moves of my house with a security will always be an imperfect hedge, and it might even fail.  In the Boston area, for example, the range of housing price changes over the last year spanned about -15% to +10%, depending on the town and neighborhood.  In the aggregate (e.g. the S&amp;P 500/Case-Shiller Boston index), prices were down, but some individual houses went up.  

These hedging tools might make sense for a national homebuilder.  Beyond that, I think Shiller&#039;s hedging securities will largely be used by speculators and naive retail investors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, you make an important point here.  Shiller&#8217;s aspiration to provide hedging tools for homeowners is well-intentioned, but flawed.  </p>
<p>The problem is something that that my lawyer pointed out to me years ago: an individual home is unique.  There&#8217;s no exact substitute for my home or your home.  It&#8217;s not like a security, where one stock or bond or barrel of oil is interchangeable with another.  </p>
<p>Trying to hedge the price moves of my house with a security will always be an imperfect hedge, and it might even fail.  In the Boston area, for example, the range of housing price changes over the last year spanned about -15% to +10%, depending on the town and neighborhood.  In the aggregate (e.g. the S&amp;P 500/Case-Shiller Boston index), prices were down, but some individual houses went up.  </p>
<p>These hedging tools might make sense for a national homebuilder.  Beyond that, I think Shiller&#8217;s hedging securities will largely be used by speculators and naive retail investors.</p>
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