<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><rss
version="2.0"
xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
> <channel><title>Comments on: Avoiding the Tail Wagging the Dog</title> <atom:link href="http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" /><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/</link> <description>Helping Institutions and Ordinary People Invest Better by Focusing on Risk Control</description> <lastBuildDate>Fri, 25 May 2012 21:31:47 +0000</lastBuildDate> <sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod> <sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency> <generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1</generator> <item><title>By: K Ackermann</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22882</link> <dc:creator>K Ackermann</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 11 Aug 2009 17:47:33 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22882</guid> <description>A buyer of CDS protection for the means of increasing leverage should be required to obtain proof the writer has the assets to cover. This should chain all the way.
Without it, the CDS contract should be declared invalid because it does not address the 3rd party. The 3rd party being John Q, who ends up eating it.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A buyer of CDS protection for the means of increasing leverage should be required to obtain proof the writer has the assets to cover. This should chain all the way.</p><p>Without it, the CDS contract should be declared invalid because it does not address the 3rd party. The 3rd party being John Q, who ends up eating it.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: matt</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22859</link> <dc:creator>matt</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 20:53:35 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22859</guid> <description>I tend to take people to task for suggesting insurable interest in derivatives, as speculators play a valuable role in hedging activities.
But, I like the idea of &quot;Only hedgers can initiate transactions.&quot; With that kind of policy, I&#039;m on board with the insurable interest plan. You make a good point that it will limit derivatives markets to a size that reflects the markets in underlying assets.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to take people to task for suggesting insurable interest in derivatives, as speculators play a valuable role in hedging activities.</p><p>But, I like the idea of &#8220;Only hedgers can initiate transactions.&#8221; With that kind of policy, I&#8217;m on board with the insurable interest plan. You make a good point that it will limit derivatives markets to a size that reflects the markets in underlying assets.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: John Heron</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22854</link> <dc:creator>John Heron</dc:creator> <pubDate>Wed, 05 Aug 2009 03:48:17 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22854</guid> <description>Completely agree on the need for derivatives regulation. As for relative legitimacy compared to the casinos, last year I would have agreed with you, but in Las Vegas you generally get a fair deal. I&#039;m not sure given what&#039;s come out about high speed trading and the dark pools you can say the same for Wall Street.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely agree on the need for derivatives regulation. As for relative legitimacy compared to the casinos, last year I would have agreed with you, but in Las Vegas you generally get a fair deal. I&#8217;m not sure given what&#8217;s come out about high speed trading and the dark pools you can say the same for Wall Street.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Brian Hird</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22852</link> <dc:creator>Brian Hird</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:23:08 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22852</guid> <description>Greg is absolutely correct in my opinion - not allowing netting of risk within institutions is massively inefficient. &#039;k&#039; (poster number 6) also makes an excellent point in advocating a move from over-the-counter trading to trading in exchange-traded contracts, both  from a liquidity and efficient price discovery perspective AND from the perspective of counterparty risk management since exchanges require collateral (&quot;initial margin&quot;) equal to their estimate of teh worst likely net one-day loss) with daily marking-to-market (&quot;variation margin&quot;).</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Greg is absolutely correct in my opinion &#8211; not allowing netting of risk within institutions is massively inefficient. &#8216;k&#8217; (poster number 6) also makes an excellent point in advocating a move from over-the-counter trading to trading in exchange-traded contracts, both  from a liquidity and efficient price discovery perspective AND from the perspective of counterparty risk management since exchanges require collateral (&#8220;initial margin&#8221;) equal to their estimate of teh worst likely net one-day loss) with daily marking-to-market (&#8220;variation margin&#8221;).</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Brian Hird</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22851</link> <dc:creator>Brian Hird</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 22:06:41 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22851</guid> <description>I&#039;ve worked in asset management for a significant period of time and have been involved in agreeing derivatives trading terms between ourselves (the investment adviser for a number of mutual fund accounts) and Wall Street counterparties. We generally given a choice of pitting place either clauses to allow for counterparties to call for collateral (collateral management is hard) or to allow mark-to-market settlement calls (much easier). A mark-to-market settlement call allows a Street counterparty to call for settlement of their net outstanding MTM profits (fund&#039;s outstanding loss MTM lossses) exceeded a certain percentage of the fund&#039;s daily-calculated Net Asset Value and vice versa the fund could do the same.
Once the outstanding MTM was settled the existing contracts were torn up and replaced with new contracts issued at the price that was used as the valuation mark in the MTM settlement.
What *I* don&#039;t understand is why AIG seemingly wasn&#039;t required to put up collateral or subjected to similar marking-to-market requirements by Goldman. Or if they were, why these failed to alleviate the situation.
As a sidenote, from memory I think Goldman had the laxest credit rating limit on what they regarded as acceptable collateral of any of the houses we dealt with. Goldman should have been allowed to fail.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve worked in asset management for a significant period of time and have been involved in agreeing derivatives trading terms between ourselves (the investment adviser for a number of mutual fund accounts) and Wall Street counterparties. We generally given a choice of pitting place either clauses to allow for counterparties to call for collateral (collateral management is hard) or to allow mark-to-market settlement calls (much easier). A mark-to-market settlement call allows a Street counterparty to call for settlement of their net outstanding MTM profits (fund&#8217;s outstanding loss MTM lossses) exceeded a certain percentage of the fund&#8217;s daily-calculated Net Asset Value and vice versa the fund could do the same.</p><p>Once the outstanding MTM was settled the existing contracts were torn up and replaced with new contracts issued at the price that was used as the valuation mark in the MTM settlement.</p><p>What *I* don&#8217;t understand is why AIG seemingly wasn&#8217;t required to put up collateral or subjected to similar marking-to-market requirements by Goldman. Or if they were, why these failed to alleviate the situation.</p><p>As a sidenote, from memory I think Goldman had the laxest credit rating limit on what they regarded as acceptable collateral of any of the houses we dealt with. Goldman should have been allowed to fail.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: cesar</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22849</link> <dc:creator>cesar</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:35:24 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22849</guid> <description>I don&#039;t know if I agree or not, but it sure makes sense.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if I agree or not, but it sure makes sense.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: David Merkel</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22848</link> <dc:creator>David Merkel</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:22:48 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22848</guid> <description>send it -- you know the address</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>send it &#8212; you know the address</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: rd</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22847</link> <dc:creator>rd</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 17:09:56 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22847</guid> <description>I think that you denigrate casinos in your last sentence.  Most casinos are highly regulated.  In return for the right to stack the odds slightly in their favor, the casinos agree to have rules and to hold a substantial margin of cash in order to pay off bets on the floor.
If the CDS markets had been run like casinos, we probably wouldn&#039;t have had the meltdown of AIG etc.
As they were effectively pretending to be the house, AIG would have needed significant cash on hand as collateral for their CDS&#039;s.  Instead, they ended up playing the role of the underfunded patsy trying to win by playing all of the roulette wheels at once.  As a result, the taxpayer was asked to step in and bail them out as well as all of the other gamblers on the floor instead of having the security guard detain them.
In the end, all we need to do is ask the markets to become at least as well regulated as a Nevada or New Jersey casino.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that you denigrate casinos in your last sentence.  Most casinos are highly regulated.  In return for the right to stack the odds slightly in their favor, the casinos agree to have rules and to hold a substantial margin of cash in order to pay off bets on the floor.</p><p>If the CDS markets had been run like casinos, we probably wouldn&#8217;t have had the meltdown of AIG etc.</p><p>As they were effectively pretending to be the house, AIG would have needed significant cash on hand as collateral for their CDS&#8217;s.  Instead, they ended up playing the role of the underfunded patsy trying to win by playing all of the roulette wheels at once.  As a result, the taxpayer was asked to step in and bail them out as well as all of the other gamblers on the floor instead of having the security guard detain them.</p><p>In the end, all we need to do is ask the markets to become at least as well regulated as a Nevada or New Jersey casino.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Fachtna Midwest</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22846</link> <dc:creator>Fachtna Midwest</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 16:45:48 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22846</guid> <description>Thank you, sir. I will happily read more of your posts on this matter.
I just wrote a 40 page paper saying exactly the same thing. Shoot me an email if you would like to read it. So, there&#039;s my bias disclosed.
One thing I have noticed time and time again for the proponents of naked CDS is that they never discuss what happens when the counterparty CANNOT pay. Aaron Unterman, a law professor, pointed out that this credit crisis was really a counterparty crisis, i.e., everything is hunky-dory until A.I.G. couldn&#039;t pay up. If the counterparty cannot pay, netting does not eliminate CDS risk. If all naked CDS are private contracts, even if counter parties net on one contract, neither one knows what contracts the other holds with other counterparties. And since naked CDS are freely assignable, not even the counterparties know who they are transacting with half the time. And no one is required to keep enough capital reserves to pay these contracts. Hedge funds fold; banks go to the government with their hats in hand. If you want to gamble, fine; just don&#039;t come to the government demanding taxpayer restitution for your crummy bets.
Not even bankruptcy will protect a counterparty - naked CDS are under a safe harbor provision, allowing a counterparty to loot the bankrupt counterparty. If you want to gamble, fine, but don&#039;t come whining to the court system to enforce your crummy bets.</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you, sir. I will happily read more of your posts on this matter.</p><p>I just wrote a 40 page paper saying exactly the same thing. Shoot me an email if you would like to read it. So, there&#8217;s my bias disclosed.</p><p>One thing I have noticed time and time again for the proponents of naked CDS is that they never discuss what happens when the counterparty CANNOT pay. Aaron Unterman, a law professor, pointed out that this credit crisis was really a counterparty crisis, i.e., everything is hunky-dory until A.I.G. couldn&#8217;t pay up. If the counterparty cannot pay, netting does not eliminate CDS risk. If all naked CDS are private contracts, even if counter parties net on one contract, neither one knows what contracts the other holds with other counterparties. And since naked CDS are freely assignable, not even the counterparties know who they are transacting with half the time. And no one is required to keep enough capital reserves to pay these contracts. Hedge funds fold; banks go to the government with their hats in hand. If you want to gamble, fine; just don&#8217;t come to the government demanding taxpayer restitution for your crummy bets.</p><p>Not even bankruptcy will protect a counterparty &#8211; naked CDS are under a safe harbor provision, allowing a counterparty to loot the bankrupt counterparty. If you want to gamble, fine, but don&#8217;t come whining to the court system to enforce your crummy bets.</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> <item><title>By: Greg</title><link>http://alephblog.com/2009/08/04/avoiding-the-tail-wagging-the-dog/comment-page-1/#comment-22845</link> <dc:creator>Greg</dc:creator> <pubDate>Tue, 04 Aug 2009 15:52:36 +0000</pubDate> <guid
isPermaLink="false">http://alephblog.com/?p=1936#comment-22845</guid> <description>David, while I agree with you 100% that too much speculation is just gambling (not risk taking) -- a certain (albeit much smaller than present) amount of &quot;pure&quot; speculation provides price discovery that benefits the hedgers and society as a whole.
Less speculation would be a great thing. Zero speculation would actually hurt the markets
Second, I am not sure your suggestion would be practical to implement.   I spent many years working at a sell side shops -- and all of them co-mingled their proprietary trading (speculating) with their market making (hedging).    All the trades cleared on the exchanged in a single firm account (or maybe by product).   There was no way for the in-house accountants, much less the exchange or regulators, to know what trades were hedges and which were speculation.
Further, any large institution is going to have significant netting across traders and across desks.    And in quite a few instances, there was netting between two books managed by the same trader (hedging different risks and/or speculating on different themes).
Lastly, your idea could increase costs for hedging in many cases.   If your insurance company needs to do a rate lock (just as example) on $1 billion -- its usually cheaper to do one big lock than 10 locks of $100 million.    Right now, the sell side firm nets your lock against all the other risk on the desk, and hedges only the residual risk.    If you separate hedging and speculating -- then the entire risk would have to be hedged separately (probably at a higher cost to reflect higher liquidity risk)</description> <content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>David, while I agree with you 100% that too much speculation is just gambling (not risk taking) &#8212; a certain (albeit much smaller than present) amount of &#8220;pure&#8221; speculation provides price discovery that benefits the hedgers and society as a whole.</p><p>Less speculation would be a great thing. Zero speculation would actually hurt the markets</p><p>Second, I am not sure your suggestion would be practical to implement.   I spent many years working at a sell side shops &#8212; and all of them co-mingled their proprietary trading (speculating) with their market making (hedging).    All the trades cleared on the exchanged in a single firm account (or maybe by product).   There was no way for the in-house accountants, much less the exchange or regulators, to know what trades were hedges and which were speculation.</p><p>Further, any large institution is going to have significant netting across traders and across desks.    And in quite a few instances, there was netting between two books managed by the same trader (hedging different risks and/or speculating on different themes).</p><p>Lastly, your idea could increase costs for hedging in many cases.   If your insurance company needs to do a rate lock (just as example) on $1 billion &#8212; its usually cheaper to do one big lock than 10 locks of $100 million.    Right now, the sell side firm nets your lock against all the other risk on the desk, and hedges only the residual risk.    If you separate hedging and speculating &#8212; then the entire risk would have to be hedged separately (probably at a higher cost to reflect higher liquidity risk)</p> ]]></content:encoded> </item> </channel> </rss>
